On the nature and name of the Triune God

On challenges from a decent Muslim to the nature and name of the Triune God:

As to "how often he is referred to as 'YHWH' in the Bible?"

Almost 6700 times.

It's hard to find anything in the Bible about the 'Holy Spirit.'

That's funny, because "Holy Spirit" is found in 92 verses, and "Spirit of God" turns up in 26:

Psalms 51:11; Isaiah 63:10,11; Matthew 1:18,20; 3:11; 12:32; 28:19; Mark 1:8; 3:29; 12:36; 13:11; Luke 1:15,35,41,67; 2:25,26; 3:16,22; 4:1; 10:21; 11:13; 12:10,12; John 1:33; 14:26; 20:22; Acts 1:2,5,8,16; 2:4,33,38; 4:8,25,31; 5:3,32; 6:5; 7:51,55; 8:15,17,19; 9:17,31; 10:38,44,45,47; 11:15,16,24; 13:2,4,9,52; 15:8,28; 16:6; 19:2,6; 20:23,28; 21:11; 28:25; Romans 5:5; 9:1; 14:17; 15:13,16; 1 Corinthians 6:19; 12:3; 2 Corinthians 6:6; 13:14; Ephesians 1:13; 4:30; 1 Thessalonians 1:5,6; 4:8; 2 Timothy 1:14; Titus 3:5; Hebrews 2:4; 3:7; 6:4; 9:8; 10:15; 1 Peter 1:12; 2 Peter 1:21; Jude 1:20

and

Genesis 1:2; 41:38; Exodus 31:3; 35:31; Numbers 24:2; 1 Samuel 10:10; 11:6; 19:20,23; 2 Chronicles 15:1; 24:20; Job 27:3; 33:4; Ezekiel 11:24; Matthew 3:16; 12:28; Romans 8:9,14; 15:19; 1 Corinthians 2:11,14; 7:40; 12:3; Ephesians 4:30; Philippians 3:3; 1 John 4:2

And no, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" are the direct words of Christ:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit . . ." (Matthew 28:19).

"We believe that Christ (Isa) was a prophet, not the Son of God. But again, that's just an opinion."

Jesus called Himself the "Son of God" and, "I AM," the name by which YHWH revealed Himself to Moses.

Every Surah in the Koran starts with "In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful." Sometimes it's translated as "Most Merciful, Most Compassionate."

Sura 9 does not.

Of the rest, several contain the commands for violence against non-Muslims, apostates, and women; Suras 4,5, and 8 come immediately to mind

In the ESV, NIV, and King James (at least; I haven't looked at other translations), YHWH in the Old Testament is translated into English as "The LORD." In the New Testament, which was written in Greek, rather than use "YHWH," the authors used Kurios, which is also translated "LORD" (all caps).

Unlike Allah (and all other gods, in fact), YHWH's miracles were done in plain sight, in history; no secret Moon-splitting, midnight flights, nor "divine revelations" on the word of one, utterly-depraved criminal

A few thoughts on religious matters, offered to a friend . . .

It is wise to be skeptical.

Unlike Allah (and all other gods, in fact), YHWH's miracles were done in plain sight, in history; no secret Moon-splitting, midnight flights, nor "divine revelations" on the word of one, utterly-depraved criminal.

From a plain reading of the Joshua passage you note (an historical account not necessarily devoid of symbolic meaning; when you're the Author of the universe, you can have both), the day standing still was intended primarily to allow Israel to defeat its enemies.

On the other hand, YHWH's defeating Egypt when He delivered Israel from slavery there and their preservation during forty years of wandering were intended to show His power and mercy.

Christ's miracles too were intended as signs so that Israel (and we) would believe that He was (is) the Promised Messiah, but even those were considered by Him as secondary; His person and words should be enough:

Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."

Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?

The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves" (John 14:8-11).

Unlike Muhammad's self-serving fusion of the "religious" and the political, Christ made a careful distinction between the two.

Faith in Him has nothing to do with societal majorities or being acceptable to friends, neighbors, or countrymen.

Jesus came to make us sinners acceptable to God. He came to bear our sins and be our Savior, to reconcile us to His Father in His body on the cross.

Christ does not demand that anyone believe, "Because I said so," or, "Believe, or else!"

He proved His power and love over and over again in public, in front of the whole world, in full view of multiple eyewitnesses (including hostile ones), in history.

As He did with Unbelieving (not "Doubting") Thomas -- who would not believe in the Resurrected Christ unless he saw and touched His wounds -- so Jesus does with us:

Now Thomas, one of the Twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord."

But he said to them, "Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe."

Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you." Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe."

Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"

Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (John 20:24-31).

Will he argue -- as he did for Muhammad's raping little, prepubescent Aisha beginning when she was only nine-years-old -- that that camel liked it?

Posted at a patriot's site:

(Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794): Narrated Anas:

Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.

Hello, Mohamed.

I've had a lot of time to think over what I might have done wrong in order for you to forbid my posting at your site and to delete my comments quoting your allah and its prophet.

If what I was saying was false or in error or just plain nonsense, that should have been easy to demonstrate. You could have left up my words and your refutations of them in order to shame me publicly into perpetuity.

But you didn't. Why not?

It's a little ironic, isn't it? I disallowed Underclassed's comments for gratuitously and undeservedly insulting Reb and for his virulent use of profanity-as-argumentation, but you ban me for . . . telling the truth?

What does that say about you, Mohamed? Your arguments? Your god? Your prophet?

I have a question about Muhammad the Physician: Since he prescribed drinking camel urine for medicinal purposes, do you also drink camel urine (when the climate doesn't suit you, that is. We mustn't take anything out-of-context!)?

If not, how can you defend him as the Perfect Man, as Allah's "beautiful pattern of conduct"?

If you do, will you argue that camel urine used to provide a health benefit, but that only Muslims, and not other civilizations, noticed?

Will you argue -- as you did for Muhammad's raping little, prepubescent Aisha beginning when she was only nine-years-old -- that that camel liked it?

Or will you argue that infidel science has yet to determine the salutary effects of that magic elixir?

As far as convincing proofs go, Jesus did not turn clay into doves; that is an apocryphal story, not historical fact (as in the canonical books).

But if He had, Jesus would not have needed "the help of God," as if He were not God Incarnate Himself, which is your implication, is it not?

Finally, since Christ spoke only the truth, committed no sin, healed the sick, raised the dead, died for the sins of the whole world (including you and me) -- and Himself resurrected and appeared to hundreds of eyewitnesses on many occasions over 40 days -- why do you not believe Him?

Instead you defend as "holy" Muhammad, who blasphemed the Living God you claim to worship, lied, stole, destroyed, enslaved, raped, mutilated, and slaughtered gratuitously. You defend all of it as "divine," going so far as to assert as scientific fact incidents that no one in the world ever witnessed.

What is it about Muhammad that convinces you to believe him? Is it the deceit? The genocide? The torture, The mutilation?

Is it his having assassinated poetesses while they nursed? His beheading prisoners of war? His murdering apostates?

Is it his anti-Semitism? His hatred for Christians? Animists? Hindus?

Is it the sex slaves? The rape?

Is it the Allah-ordained pedophilia that moves you so?

We know that Jesus is the Son of God because that is what He said of Himself

When Someone Who committed no sin, spoke only the truth, healed the sick, raised the dead, died for the sins of the whole world, and overcame death by His resurrection makes an objective truth claim, you ought to listen to Him.

Alen writes in defense of Muhammad:

How? Show us your proof. How cna messenger/prophet Jesus be a son of god? And how come there is a clear difference between Jesus and God in The Bible, NT?
Jesus was a human, he was put in the womb of the virgin Mary, got born, lived, delivered The Message from God and was raised to Heaven.
Jews think they crucified him.
Oops.

A few quick points

1) It is a bit ironic that someone who believes that a blaspheming, genocidal, murdering, raping, mutilating, enslaving, vandalizing, extorting, thieving, lying pedophile was a prophet of the living God is asking for "proof."

What proof do you have for believing Muhammad? Is it the gratuitous beheadings, chronic child rape, or rampant slavery?

2) It is not "a" son of god, it is the Son of God.

3) It is not a "clear difference between Jesus and God," but a clear distinction made between God the Son and God the Father.

4) YHWH created the universe. Is incarnation too difficult for Him?

5) Everyone who witnessed Christ being crucified thought Christ was crucified because . . . Christ was crucified.

6) You do know that early in Islam's history, variant readings of Qur'an were collected and destroyed? That Muhammad tried to change revelations?

Proof

We know that Jesus is the Son of God because that is what He said of Himself.

His Father, the Prophets, and the Apostles all testify to this.

Your false prophet correctly stated that what Moses, the Prophets of YHWH, and Christ preached originally was true. His error was in claiming that Jews and Christians had corrupted those revelations.

Christ referred to the Biblical texts of His day (the Old Testament) as perfect and permanent -- "Father, Your word is truth" and "the Scriptures cannot be broken."

Muhammad has a problem: We have reliable -- not "corrupted" -- copies of the original inspired and perfect Old and New Testament documents, including written records of what Christ actually said and did.

Since we know what Jesus said, you must listen to Him.

The trustworthiness of Scripture

We have copies of Old Testament texts dating to more than a century before Christ, including a complete scroll of Isaiah from around 125 B.C. These demonstrate that the Sacred Texts have been transmitted faithfully down through the centuries to us.

In fact, the body of manuscripts is so reliable that the Bible we possess today is nearly 99% pure. Remaining issues involve mainly spelling errors, word omissions (articles, conjunctions, etc.), and other copyists' mistakes. None of these copying errors affect doctrine.

What do the uncorrupted, reliable Biblical texts say about the Son of God and His crucifixion?

Contrary to your claim, there is no distinction between Christ and God in the New Testament making Jesus only human.

Since "God" in the New Testament refers usually to God the Father, the distinction being made in those cases is between persons of the Trinity, between the Son of God and His Father.

By the way, Christ refers to God as "my Father" dozens of times in the Gospels.

A true prophet, Isaiah, foresaw that the promised Messiah would be God Incarnate:

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6).

Note that in this statement alone, the Child to be born is given the name of God the Father ("Everlasting Father"), God the Son ("Prince of Peace"), and God the Holy Spirit ("Wonderful Counselor").

And as Moses stated, "Hear O Israel . . . the LORD is one," so too the Messiah will be called "Mighty God."

Isn't that odd? The Triune God named in the Old Testament.

Both Isaiah and David foretold the Messiah's torturous scourging and crucifixion, to which there were many witnesses:

"He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.

"But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all" (Isaiah 53:3-6).

"For dogs encompass me; a company of evildoers encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet-- I can count all my bones-- they stare and gloat over me; they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots" (Psalms 22:16-18).

More on the deity of Christ

The Apostles testified to Christ being God. Here is the opening of John's Gospel. Note the distinction between the Father and the Son: Two distinct persons, one nature:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men . . . He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth . . . from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known" (John 1:1-18).

Jesus used the name by which the One, True God, YHWH (not Allah) revealed Himself to Moses:

"So the Jews said to him, 'You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?'

"Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.' So they picked up stones to throw at him . . . " (John 8:57-59).

The religious leaders would not have tried to stone Him for blasphemy unless He were claiming to be YHWH.

Notice in the next passage both that Christ calls God "My Father" and that the religious authorities wanted to kill Him for "making Himself equal with God.":

But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I am working." This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5:17-18).

The Father says directly of His Son:

"And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, 'This is my Son, my Chosen One; listen to him'" (Luke 9:35)!

"And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, 'This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased'" (Matthew 3:16-17).

One last proof of Christ's deity: In Revelation 22 we find GOD speaking:

"And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment" (Revelation 21:5-6).

And in the very next chapter, we read:

"Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end" (Revelation 22:12-13).

Who is speaking in the second passage? Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

If Jesus was only a man as you claim, then how in the world would He have the same name as the omnipotent GOD?

Many other passages show Jesus Christ to be the Son of God.

Trust in Christ, Who forgives your sins freely, not Muhammad.