Saturday, January 07, 2006

When freedom really isn't

A reader from Egypt has been kind enough to continue our discussion. Here are some of my thoughts on his comments.
"You may be right about Christians position(about building churches)in Egypt,and I'm sorry that I said YES that I replied with my knowledge and I knew the reality later,but they go to churches freely...."
So, Christians in Egypt suffering injustice and discrimination is okay?
"...what about television it's usually as Muslims in Egypt are more than Christians…..and do you in America(Freedom country)that is considered the best country in religion freedom have an equal position between all religions?!!!"
The point about Egyptian television programming is that taxpayer-funded television programming should be more balanced, since Christians pay their taxes also.

In the United States, you'll find more pro-Islamic and anti-Christian propaganda than you will find pro-Christian programming on the taxpayer-funded network PBS:
  • A program showing Muslims in the United States advocating terrorism against it is suppressed;
  • A show on Islam claiming that even when Turks kidnapped, enslaved, and forced the conversions of Christian boys it was good for the Christians;
  • Whenever a broadcast discusses Christ or Christians it is almost always critical (if not hostile).
Everyone in the United States is free to finance their own privately-funded broadcast.
The first is( I've read):Your Media do all its best to show Islam with the terrorist picture,and if the accident was right; Media will show that Muslims were behind it and Muslims aren't men they are monsters walking on four,Muslims have no hearts,they are mad,all their aim in life is to kill and drink blood…..and all things you are saying in the west…
Are you able to produce any evidence of the American mainstream media producing such material? If anything, the MSM bends over backwards to avoid the public making the connection between Islam and terrorism carried out by Muslims.
The second is:(under Shariah):huh…I hope that we were in Egypt under Shariah,correct your information; law in Egypt is taken from France….and another fact that I think that you won't believe..government fight against Al-Ikhwan Al-Muslimon(a big group that understand Islam in the right way)so don't convince me that police will be besides Islam in forcing non-muslims to be muslims...
Perhaps you misread what I wrote. I did not state that Egypt is under Shariah. I wrote, "it appears that Egypt is not yet fully under Shariah."

Does French law discriminate against non-Christians?

I am aware that the Egyptian government is officially against some of the more devout Muslim groups. That has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not non-Muslims have the same rights as Muslims do.
...however forcing is from imagination…and when I ask myself:Why any body force another one to follow his religion?it will be useless…and what will you say when you know that QUR'AN told Muslims that:"THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN ISLAM"….
Allah's apostle said, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him" (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57).

Allah said, "...kill the unbelievers wherever you find them," and, "Fight...the People of the Book until they feel themselves subdued and pay the jizya" (Qur'an 9).

Obviously, there is no compulsion in religion.
And under Shariah in right Islamic state people from all religions will be free,safe in their life and religious rituals...
Like Saudi Arabia and Iran? Be honest!

You're leaving out what 1400 years of Dhimma make painfully clear: non-Muslims are "free" and "safe" under the rule of Islam (as long as you don't mind oppression, humiliation, and discrimination).
And what America gave us:Abo Gharib and Guantanamo. and what about Christianity:wasn't it punishing people for nothing in Middle ages?!!and the Church was very despotism?!!
If I understand you correctly, you're saying, "Well, we Muslims don't do those things you're saying, but if we did, you Christians are just as bad!" That is intellectually dishonest.

What occurred in Abu Gharib and what goes on in Gitmo (prisoners there are provided Qur'ans and halal meals!) are hardly comparable to the atrocities committed in the cause of Allah; it is immoral to try to equate the two.

Nevertheless, when you find Christians doing evil, a comparison of that behavior to the life and words of Christ will quickly show such actions to be in violation of His commands.

When you find Muslims fighting against, subduing and humiliating, and killing non-Muslims, a comparison of that behavior to the Qur'an and the life and words of Mohammed quickly shows such actions to be obedient to Allah's commands.
You said that god sent Jesus to forgive all Christians for their sins,Right?
No, I did not. God the Father sent His Son to forgive all people their sins, whether or not they are Christians.
So you can do all what you want not afraid from being punished and when any body ask you; you'll say I'm forgived,Right?!!
Not at all! When a person trusts in Christ, they will not willfully and gladly sin without fear. Instead, one who has saving faith in Jesus will strive to do the good God wants and stop doing the evil He hates.
Finally: I want to make a contract with you: you give me the verse or hadith(verse by verse)...
Obviously, since you're reading this you have access to everything I've written regarding Islam's holy texts. I've cited numerous passages from Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira. You have not yet refuted them, and you cannot, since they are from Allah.

But, since you asked, I'll give you four:

"...fight and slay the unbelievers wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful" (Qur'an 9:5).

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Qur'an 9:29).

"Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, 'If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him" (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57).

“My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old” (Tabari IX:131).
Mohamed continued:
...to show that there is no contradiction in QUR'AN...
Which explains the doctrine of Abrogation.
...if you want to know real face of Islam....
To know the real face of Islam I go to its god and its prophet.

Qur'an, Hadith, Sira (and 1400 years of putting them into practice at the expense of the Infidel) show me all I need to know.
...you don't take the time to understand my messages;so please take enough time to understand my messages to benefit and for the sake of the discussion to be useful not just every side try to say what he wants to say without understanding what the other side wants to say.
How have I misunderstood your comments? You have not yet refuted nor rejected the clear commands of Allah and his apostle to fight against, subdue and humiliate, and kill non-Muslims.

Instead, you've denied the obvious reality for Christians in Egypt, excused their oppression and suffering, and tried to equate the systematic, "divinely-inspired" implementation of jihadist doctrine with the (principled) treatment of terrorists captured trying to kill Americans.