Monday, May 25, 2009

Twisting Divine revelation to in order to make YHWH a monster

Just like the prophet from hell Mohammed/Mohammad/Muhammad.

Another odd and hostile comment from someone enamored with Calvin's capricious and malevolent deity (must have struck a nerve!), this time from Go Share Your Faith (the author did not leave a link; I assume that is his/her site. If not, let me know, and I'll fix it).

He/she writes:
It would be nice if your bias was a little less severe so that you could quote scripture accurately:

"I longed to gather you like a hen gathers her chicks, but you were not willing."But it's actually:

"I longed to gather your children like a hen gathers her chicks, but you were not willing."what's the difference?

One is a false proof text taken out of context.

The other is Jesus rebuking the pharisees for their behavior and pronouncing woe's upon mention of Him weeping over their ability to "resist his attempts at saving them"

You accuse others of bias but you have a streak of bias a mile wide and it's showing.
The woes precede the lament.

Here is Matthew 23:37 according to the English Standard Version:
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!"
Jesus said, "I longed to gather your children . . . but you were not willing."

You make Christ a liar.

If you want to make a distinction, what is the difference between "Jerusalem" and "your children" in this verse?

Jesus said, "the city" murdered prophets. How? Parking fines?

Cities don't kill prophets, people do.

(Would its "children" be suburbs?)

Or are you claiming that the Pharisees and their fellow hypocrites are "Jerusalem"? If so, when Jesus warns the "Daughters of Jerusalem" to weep for themselves and their children, is He actually calling them, "Daughters of the Pharisees"?

If you limit Jesus' comments to the hypocritical religious authorities He was condemning, who are their "children"? The people of Jerusalem, or just their converts -- "twice the children of hell"?

Even under that misinterpretation, Christ longed to gather the Pharisees' proselytes, but the Pharisees were not willing. (The Pharisees were able to disbelieve for their converts?)

Does not "Jerusalem" here represent the people of Israel in general?

The point of my citing that verse is that YHWH longed to save unbelievers, but they refused.

And that's why you don't like the passage.

You and your buddy John Calvin are like the older brother in the Parable of the Prodigal Son. You think that you alone deserve Heaven, and you're mad that anyone else is going to be there.

God's mercy should not be a source of anguish for you. His love extends to all people. Christ died for all. He is the atoning sacrifice not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world.

In trying to prove that God creates people for hell, you twist an expression of God's grace into an expectation of perdition.

You make Gospel into Law and His words meaningless.

Just like Rome. Just like much of Evangelicalism.

Just like . . . the Pharisees.

In your zeal to make God a monster, you jump to conclusions regarding the verse not necessarily supported by the rest of Scripture.

You are correct that here in Matthew, the preceding verses have Jesus pronouncing condemnation against the religious authorities opposing Him (the condemnation brought on them by their own refusal of His "gathering," not "divine" whim!).

But what do you do with Luke 13?

Here the same lamentation follows a number of different topics, including Christ's teaching and preaching.

Rather than a series of woes, the last part preceding the lament is a comment intended for Herod. Notice its conclusion:
At that very hour some Pharisees came and said to him, "Get away from here, for Herod wants to kill you."

And he said to them, "Go and tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I finish my course. Nevertheless, I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following, for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.'

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!

Behold, your house is forsaken. And I tell you, you will not see me until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord'" (Luke 13:31-35)!
An observation about Israel's tradition of murdering God's messengers is followed by an expression of the sorrow that that God feels for (even) His rebellious people.

Jesus takes Herod's bloodlust (and the Pharisees' warning) as an opportunity to foreshadow His own Passion and the events of Holy Week, which leads into His lament for those whom He longed to save and for whom He was about to die.

But that's not good enough for you. You have to make this about Christ creating on a whim people for destruction.

In your effort to defend your heresy, you make the Son of God a son of hell.

So, I have a question for you: According to your theology, how do you know whether or not you're going to Heaven?

For if Calvin's god arbitrarily chose before the foundation of the world some for Life and some for Hell, how can you know of which group you are a part? You know that some will be sent to destruction who worked in Christ's name, to which defense He will reply, "I never knew you."

You can't be good enough, you can't try hard enough, you can't resist sin enough or do enough good works to know that you've been picked, because you still sin.

The Scriptural answer to my question is this:
Christ has died for the sins of the whole world, so I know that He died for mine, too.
Thanks be to God!