Update 3/30: Moderation was disabled, so the post below is up on the site. The truth will out, anyway. In response to the inaptly named justice786:
In your zeal to serve Allah, you do a disservice to God and Man. Below are (again) refutations of your many half-truths, logical fallacies, and outright lies.
"It is interesting that you quote the verse that you did because it shows again that you only use English translations."Arabic is a human language. "kill the pagans wherever you find them" (Qur'an 9:5) is not a mistranslation.
"In the Quran (chapter 3, verse 28) . . . The term God is using in this verse . . . is "aulia" which actually means "supporter" . . . .""helper" is synonymous with "supporter," none of which negates verse after verse of brutality toward non-Muslims, including Jews and Christians. Besides that: "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust" (Qur'an 5:51), and, "Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures" (Qur'an 98:6).
"So you see my dear friend Muhammad, if you understood the original arabic of the Qur'an, you would know that you can still be my friend, though not my ally."I pointed out that you are not my “friend,” because however one might define the term, butchery and slavery are not elements of its definition.
The master-dhimmi relationship is great . . . for the master. If Islam ever gains the ascendancy here, I doubt they’ll share your opinion."I have many friends from the Christian and Jewish religions as well as other faith-based communities, and we have a great relationship."
"Yes, several posts ago, Muslims were told to go home."Not by me, which is what you said. Changing your language to “were told” from “you told” is a tacit admission that you were wrong, but you don’t have the decency to admit that.
"My wife is a former born again Christian"Whatever the deficiencies of American Evangelicalism, that’s still a fall from heaven to hell.
"and native American . . . my Navy son . . . ."And if we were in Australia, they'd be aborigines. You must be quite a fisherman, since that’s another a red herring: The issue is not national origin or ancestry, but your genocidal pedophile's commands to enslave or slaughter all who refuse the "invitation" to Islam and your eagerness to advance that by deceiving others.
"Actually, you have changed the topic everytime I clarified a point"I was responding to comments made here, including yours. Don't be silly.
"Your comments on the above article had nothing to do with Muslims in business in Minnesota."Your comments here are obfuscations for jihad. Jihad and shari'a are "Muslim business," in Minnesota and everywhere. That's the problem.
"You love quoting from the Qur'an or from Hadiths without any understanding of the original arabic, or the context of the hadith, or actually of the Seerah (life and example of the Prophet (s)."It should be clear that I understand your religion very well. Using Islamic translations of Islamic texts written in a human language is legitimate. And you've yet to demonstrate where I've taken anything "out-of-context."
What context makes "kill the pagans wherever you find them" (Qur'an 9:5) not murderous refuse, again?
"You do not unfortunately have any understanding of fiqh or of the Shari'ah. It is easy when one uses a cut and paste approach to anything to show what you perceive to be total contradictions when in fact there are not."A false ad hominem and an outright lie. Apparently, you confuse “basic human decency” with “understanding.” Just because I don’t agree with Allah’s bloodlust, doesn’t mean I don’t understand it.
Neither do I "perceive total contradictions;" you're only hoping to create in the minds of those unfamiliar with Islamic texts, tenets, and timelines the perception of misunderstanding.
As for contradictions, naskh, the doctrine of abrogation, is your false prophet's idea, not mine: “The Prophet said, ‘If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath'" (Bukhari Volume 7, Book 67, Number 427), and, “Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it . . .” (Qur'an 2:106)?
And those are proof texts, so that non-Muslims (and Muslims of good will) can see just what it is that Allah requires.
"I have already answered your question about apostasy. Again, no one was killed only for being an apostate during the life of the Prophet (s). Traitors were killed and some of them happened to be apostates. Killing someone for "apostasy" would be against verse 2: 256 in the Qur'an, the final source of revelation and the word of God."Two problems there: Leaving Islam is considered treason because Muhammad was a totalitarian warlord, and Muhammad ordered the deaths of those who committed apostasy: "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him" (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57).
You even get to rape the People of the Book. Muslim men marry non-Muslim women (making them stupidly “Muslim-Christians,” etc.), but the opposite is not allowed."Islam itself is tolerant of other faiths. Look at how Islam talks about the "People of the Book", Jews and Christians, allows Muslims to eat of the food of the People fo the Book, and even get married to people of the book without their having to change their faith. Some of my best friends are Muslims married to Christians or Jews."
I've posted several passages showing Muhammad's special love for Jews and Christians, which you cannot refute. Murdering and enslaving those who refuse to convert to Islam is not "tolerance."
"Arabic is the language of the Qur'an. How many versions of the bible do you have?"One Bible. I use several translations, all of which are good. None of them contradict the others on points of doctrine. Regardless, that’s just another red herring.
"There is only one correct version of the Qur'an and it is the Arabic version ."After the other, competing versions were destroyed. And don’t forget the Satanic Verses. (Shouldn’t verses commanding genocide on religious grounds be considered “incorrect”?)
"I demonstrated to you in #1 above that your ignorance of Arabic"No, you demonstrated your contempt for the non-Muslims who frequent this site, and what you presume is our ignorance.
Unfortunately, like so many in the West, I'm too familiar with Arabic. Islam is just like Nazism: two murderous cults ruining perfectly good human languages (Arabic and German) used for centuries by Christians. What a shame.
You’re assertion is irrational and self-contradictory: Either you grew up speaking Arabic or you did not. If you did and accurate translation is impossible as you claim, then how can you know that the English is in error, since you know English only through translation? If you grew up NOT speaking Arabic and accurate translation is impossible as you claim, then you don't know what the Arabic actually says.
And that’s the unintentional irony of the murderous and deceitful. Well done!
"and reliance on translations has led you to misinterpret what the Qur'an says, and to castigate Muslims when it is inappropriate."You’ve not demonstrated that I’ve misinterpreted anything. And I’ve only castigated you for lying in defense of genocide, pedophilia, and slavery. If instead of obfuscating for Allah’s tyranny you oppose it, I’ll commend you.
"Islam has a very clearcut etiquette when it comes to war. No killing of old people, children and women."Except when it doesn’t: "The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256). And not to mention Abu Afak, Asma bint Marwan, and others.
"No scorched earth approach. War is only for two reasons: defense or to free people from oppression."You hope that no one here knows that "unbelief in Allah" is considered "oppression" by Muslims. The mere existence of non-Muslims is considered an obstacle to Islam and an oppression of Muslims.
And there is, of course, this: "Allah's Apostle said: 'I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle . . . '" (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24).
"There is no pedophilia in Islam (some cultures marry women at a younger age than the US where the age of sexual consent is as low as 12 years old in some states)."That’s a clumsy tu quoque. Allah’s “beautiful pattern of conduct” Muhammad did it, so you should too: "Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)" (Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64 and 65).
And don’t forget the Qur’anic stipulations on divorcing prepubescent females: "And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months along with those who have it not. And for those with child, their period shall be till they bring forth their burden. And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah, He maketh his course easy for him" (Qur'an 65:4).
"Show me a verse in the Qur'an where rape, mutiliation, or torture are allowed."I have, repeatedly. Clearly, you don't care to deal with this subject matter or me truthfully, or you would not lie shamelessly, even when I've already exposed your mendacity.
Raping sex slaves (not to mention Muhammad''s raping numerous captives, and little prepubescent 'Aisha): “If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice” (Qur'an 4:3).
Mutilation and torture (not to mention Muhammad's torturing a captive Jew for the location of hidden wealth): "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter . . . " (Qur'an 5:33).
Ibn Kathir says of this verse: "'Wage war' mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil." So, Muhammad requires execution, crucifixion, or cutting off hands and feet from opposite sides for "disbelief."
"Islam came to put an end to slavery, and there are many examples of the Prophet (s) freeing slaves. This is contrast to even my country the US where it took a civil war to put an end to slavery."Freeing his own slaves (he was entitled to one-fifth of the booty from a razzia. Which means he was a practitioner. And what do you think the dhimma system was but a system of religious discrimination, humiliation, and extortion?
And playing a tu quoque meant to shame into silence is dishonest and ineffective. You ought to be embarrassed. But I suppose that in worshiping a bloodthirsty devil, one must compromise not only one’s intellect but one’s conscience.
Jizya and dhimma are extortion (“Pay us and we’ll protect you . . . from ourselves!”): "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Qur'an 9:29)."Show me where the Qur'an advocates theft and extortion."
But not something of which I am guilty. Your own authorities teach it. “Beat” is “beat.”“Misinterpreting the verse about disciplining your wife is a favorite hobby of people who attack Islam.”
“There is no record of the Prophet (s) ever laying a hand on any of his wives”Which is why I use the words “commanded” and “endorsed.” But he did teach beating wives from whom you fear disobedience, and ‘Aisha, the pedophile prophet’s favorite “wife,” lamented at the suffering of Muslim women.
You know as well as I that being “the best to their women” would include beating them, since the purpose would be to discipline them for Allah and Paradise (possibly).“there are hadiths where he talks about the best of Muslims being those who are the best to their women.”
“surely the protection afforded by a polygamous marriage is better than none or potential sexual promiscuity.”Especially when victims of rape get murdered for adultery. (I”ll save you the need to lie about this one: Because Muhammad wanted to protect himself from an awkward situation with ‘Aisha, he required four witnesses to adultery. So a Muslim woman who reports being raped but lacks the witnesses is admitting to unlawful sexual intercourse. What’s a devout Muslim to do, but punish such “mischief”?
And there’s this: "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way . . ." (Qur'an 4:15).
“There is no religious apartheid in Islam”Dhimma. Pact of Umar.
“men and women have equal but not identical rights.”Yes, women have the right to be raped beginning at age nine (even on a camel’s saddle!), to receive half the inheritance of a brother, to possess a lesser standing in court, to be beaten for “fearing” disobedience, etc.
“Deceit and blasphemy are not supported by any verse that I know in the Qur'an.”Deceit in Qur’an: "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah" (Qur'an 3:28).
Deceit in ahadith: "War is deceit" (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 268), and, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?' Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, 'O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?' The Prophet said, 'Yes,' Muhammad bin Maslama said, 'Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab).' The Prophet said, 'You may say it' (Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369).
Blaspheming YHWH: "In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary . . ." (Qur'an 5:17), "They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them" (Qur'an 5:73), and "the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth" (Qur'an 9:30)!
“In the end, it is very easy to make accusations when one studies another person's faith at the surface, does not understand the language in which the Qur'an was revealed, and cobbles together their own cut and paste approach to Islam.”Which has nothing to do with me. Stay on topic.
“When I talk to my Christian or Jewish friends, I don't talk to them about my perception of their faith. I let them tell me about how they perceive and practice their faith.”If I want to know the truth about Islam, I’ll go to its god, founder, “sacred” texts, and history, not a maliciously-deceitful propagandist.
“Islam is the fastest growing religion in the USA, and will continue to be the fastest growing religion, God Willing.”He is not.
“If you don't believe me, just go to the website, www.Islamicity.com, and watch how many American men and women of different faiths and backgrounds are embracing Islam every hour of every days.”Muslims would never, ever lie, right?
“the Qur'an says in Chapter 109, "Say, O you that reject faith. I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine.'But you said translations were useless.