Wednesday, September 19, 2007

Defending the indefensible

More from my "Stop the Clash of Civilizations" acquaintance at YouTube:
do you speak any other languages? because it doesn't seem so. learning a language and reading things in that language is different than having someone translate it for you. any muslim person you ask will tell you to learn arabic and interpret the quran yourself, not to just read it in english and that's that.
"Frequently, columnists and pundits who try to smear Islam quote verse 9:5 incompletely and out of context. The full verse reads as follows: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them: seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.""
So Muhammad[PBUH]said to fight those who oppose you fiercely, but once they repent or etc. to "open the way for them" because Allah is forgiving. And if the pagans and their allies didn't attack the Muslims, the Muslims wouldn't of even fought them because they wouldn't of had a reason.
Again, how can you learn a language other than your native tongue without translation?

The fact that it can be done demonstrates that translations can be reliable. Any loss of meaning in a particular translation is not necessarily significant enough to distort the intent of the passage in its original language. Besides that, no one has demonstrated the common English translations of 9:5 to be distortions of the Arabic. Stop hiding your advocacy of genocide, rape, slavery behind "I'm still learning Arabic."

Whether I speak none, one, or several other languages has no bearing on the truth of your assertion that it is impossible to understand Qur'an and Sunnah except in Arabic.

Finally, your quote about misinterpreting 9:5 has no bearing on my previous comments and is itself a misrepresentation of the passage!

You say that Mohammed said to fight "those who oppose you fiercely," but that is nowhere to be found in 9:5. The Verse of the Sword is a command for offensive warfare against unbelievers; it is not regarding self-defense (though you will find the same wording in that context in Surah 2).

In the context of the rest of Islam's "sacred" texts, it is clear that this warfare is to be carried out against non-Muslims who refuse to convert (and Jews and Christians who also refuse to submit and pay the jizya):
"the Messenger of Allah . . . would say: 'Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war. . . . When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. . . . Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. . . . If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them . . .'" (Muslim Book 19, Number 4294).
As your prophet and 1400 years of Islamic history makes clear, the only reason the Muslims have to "kill the unbelievers" in 9:5 is their refusal to submit to Allah's rule as either believers or dhimmis. Sparing those who "repent" -- convert to Islam and are therefore now Muslim -- hardly makes the passage, its god and prophet, and your defense of it any less evil or perverse.