Saturday, March 26, 2011

Only the deranged, the perverse, and Muslims can ask, "what makes you any better than muslims who stone women for similar* reasons set out in the Bible?"

Could it be that . . . I'm not stoning anyone?

This is not about "being better than" anyone; we are all sinners deserving of God's wrath and dependent solely on His mercy in Christ. This is about telling the truth, by which souls are saved from hell and non-Muslims are saved from hell-on-Earth.

In reply to someone throwing Muhammad's hellish bathwater on the Baby:
Hi, I'm Richard and I think Islam . . . ,

Essentially, you're mad because you're not God. You don't like his definition of "sin" (thanks for admitting that). Fine. Create a universe, and then you can make up your own rules. Until then, can't you at least deal honestly with the Biblical texts? Do you misrepresent the Bible and its God out of ignorance only, or is it just pure cosmos envy?

(Let's see, you hate, defame, and blaspheme the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and His Christ, attribute sinful human qualities to God (God's "jealousy" is His desire for all to live, not a misogynist's possessiveness), make yourself your own god, and blame God for human evil. Are you sure you're not Muslim?)

If you really were concerned about the Problem of Pain and not just sniping, I'd point out that whatever evils and injustices you want to attribute to God, He endured the greatest evil and injustice of all, willingly sacrificing His own Son (Who willingly made the sacrifice) to pay for the sins of all. God reconciled men to Himself in Christ's body on the cross. The greater mystery is not why God allows suffering, but why He would suffer and die for a sinful humanity which rages against Him.

As for your "arguments" . . .

We have ample historical and archaeological evidence of Christ's words and deeds; what exists for the Greek or other pagan mythologies? Only the historically-illiterate can claim that Christ was a myth. Not even the most hateful liberal "theologians" do so. Not even Muslims.

Your characterization of Christians as "sheep who want to be enslaved and lead [sic] around by the nose" may be true of a lot of Christians, but that's because of human nature, not because of Christ. The greatness of Western Civilization (reaching its zenith in America) is due to Christ's words and deeds, as attested to by Thomas Jefferson, (possibly) Patrick Henry, John Quincy Adams, and Alexis de Tocqueville, to name a few:
"The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy] have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it's benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind." -T. Jefferson

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faith have been afforded asylum, prosperity and freedom of worship here." -attributed commonly to Patrick Henry

"And he [Jesus] declared, that the enjoyment of felicity in the world hereafter, would be reward of the practice of benevolence here. His whole law was resolvable into the precept of love; peace on earth – good will toward man, was the early object of his mission; and the authoritative demonstration of the immortality of man, was that, which constituted the more than earthly tribute of glory to God in the highest . . . The first conquest of the religion of Jesus, was over the unsocial passions of his disciples. It elevated the standard of the human character in the scale of existence . . . On the Christian system of morals, man is an immortal spirit, confined for a short space of time, in an earthly tabernacle. Kindness to his fellow mortals embraces the whole compass of his duties upon earth, and the whole promise of happiness to his spirit hereafter. THE ESSENCE OF THIS DOCTRINE IS, TO EXALT THE SPIRITUAL OVER THE BRUTAL PART OF HIS NATURE." -J. Q. Adams

"The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other; and with them this conviction does not spring from that barren traditionary faith which seems to vegetate in the soul rather than to live." -A. de Tocqueville
As for "God created evil," that's just a postmodern, atheistic way of blaming your parents for your own bad behavior. Because if someone does evil, then it must be the fault of whoever made him, right? (You do know that's what Adam did when he first sinned, don't you?) Why do you continue to attribute human evil to God? It's not God murdering, raping, and pillaging or causing the innocent to suffer.

You wonder why God "let[s] millions of innocent children starve to death in Africa while allowing us to live with abundance?" You admit your wealth; why aren't you doing something about it instead of whining and blaming God? You do know that most of those children starving in Africa are starving because of Islam, don't you? So, you're blaming God for non-Muslims suffering at the hands of Allah. Are you sure you're not Muslim?

As for straw men, I've set up none; you stated literally that "Jesus approves of slavery." That's ridiculous. You should be embarrassed.

The laws to which you object were for the nation of Israel only, whom YHWH delivered out of slavery in Egypt to be His own people. Perhaps you missed this little detail, but ancient Israel entered voluntarily into the covenant with YHWH; they agreed to obey all the laws He gave them through Moses. How can you complain about someone else's agreements entered into of their own free will? Since those laws were for ancient Israel only, if you don't like them, you don't have to follow them.

And that highlights one of the fundamental distinctions between Moses and Muhammad: Moses' laws were part of a contract and did not apply to those outside of Israel. In Islam, no one has a choice, anywhere, at any time, unless you call only conversion, slavery, or death "possibilities."

Providing means for dealing with a permanent global institution does not indicate approval or acceptance. (You see the same thing with divorce: God intended one man-one woman for life and hates divorce, but provides certain allowances for it because of the "hardness of men's hearts.") Since the Mosaic laws regarding slavery applied to only ancient Israel and not the non-Hebrew world, any implied or stated equivalence between the Mosaic Law and Islam is obviously ill-judged.

As for the commands to Christians regarding slavery, they are part of a larger principle, which is that Christians are to share the Gospel in word and deed no matter their station in life, the salvation of souls being more important than physical circumstances. That's why slaves who become Christians were told to obey their masters.

Where is the command to enslave? Nowhere. And you might remember that Jesus didn't lead an armed rebellion against the pagan Romans who oppressed Israel (as many expected); on the contrary, He taught His followers to honor Caesar. (And He happened to allow the Romans to murder Him for the sins of the world. What a mean god! He's just like Allah!)

And of course, unsurprisingly, you left out these declarations:
Were you a slave when called? Do not be concerned about it. (But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.) (1 Corinthians)

For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery (Galatians).

For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another (Galatians).
If Christ "set us free for freedom," then how can you say that He "approves of slavery"?

As for stoning, only the deranged, the perverse, and Muslims can ask, "what makes you any better than muslims who stone women for similar reasons set out in the Bible?" The question is absurd on its face. Those kinds of false tu quoques are trotted out regularly by Islam's apologists. Are you sure you're not Muslim?

You oppose ancient Israel's method of capital punishment. Of course, stoning is horrific. What form of taking someone's life isn't? So, what should Moses have done? Nothing? (I thought you wanted evil punished?) Where was he going to find a gun? At his local Wal-Mart? Where was he going to plug in an electric chair? Unless you oppose capital punishment, you can't complain about stoning when that was one of the few options available for execution.

As for the reasons for capital punishment and to whom it applied, the Mosaic Law did not sanction stoning women hypocritically or for being raped and not having four witnesses, as does Islam. The regulations under Moses were not a means for keeping a nation oppressed and subservient to a warlord's wishes. And you may recall an account of Christ saving a woman from stoning for adultery by pointing out the hypocrisy of her accusers. Does that need explanation?

A last point: Christianity -- the doctrines derived from the Biblical texts regarding the Messiah -- originated with Moses, not Nicea. That's a common Muslim lie.

Are you sure you're not Muslim?

*"Similar" is not "same." That's just another false moral equivalence and tu quoque.