Mohamed on Mohammed, part II

Monday, December 26

Mohamed on Mohammed, part II

A reader from Egypt continues...

First of all..Please don't direct any swears to Islam or even my prophet Mohamed..and you will receive the same respect;

How generous. You will find that I tend to stick to the facts.

I hope you don't consider telling the truth "swears."

as Islam orders me-in QURA'AN to:"Invite (all) to the Way of
thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with
them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord
knoweth best.."16:125

Islam also orders you to:

Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them). And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do" (Qur'an 8:38-8:39).

Mohamed continues:

...about first request:(..Islam actually teaches equality of rights and freedom of religion for all (including unbelievers))..you'll find the verse which say:"Let there be no compulsion in religion.."2:256

And the context for that passage is that those to whom the (false) prophet was referring were being tortured and killed for Allah.

If that is not enough to demonstrate the "tolerance" of Mohammed and his god, what about this from Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:

Narrated 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, 'If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.''

If Islam requires the subjugation, oppression, and murder of Infidels who do not convert of their own free will, how "free" is their conversion when those unbelievers see the consequences of remaining an unbeliever?

and you'll find Prophet Mohamed saying"They have the same rights of us,and same duties on us"..and Omar Ibn Al-khatab using non-muslims-as employes-in House of Money(Bait Al Mal).

Equal rights? Subjugation is not equality.

You'll also find Mohammed saying, "Fight...the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Qur'an 9:29). The dhimmitude described here is not equality of rights, it is humiliation, oppression, vile submission.

and what about second request;there is three verses after each other that reply on it..it's in 2:190-191-192 and say:"190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you,but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. 191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque,unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. 192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

This is one of the passages that requires warfare in self-defense. This is entirely appropriate.

However, this passage does nothing to ameliorate or negate the universal commands for warfare against the Infidel found in numerous Qur'anic passages (exemplified by the Verse of the Sword, 9:5: "...kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.").

...I want to reveal a basic point:verses you mentioned are talking about events that passed(from 1400 years)when unbelievers were fighting Muslims.. and another important point;from rules of wars in Islam is not to kill an old man,a child or a woman or to cut a tree and to leave mens who are worshipping in hermitages(monastics)..so how QURA'AN get back and order Muslims to kill with no borders..

Again, the passage from Surah 2 regarding self-defense in no way negates the universal commands for warfare against non-Muslims found in Surah 9 and elsewhere.

I asked you to demonstrate from its context that 9:5 was a passage about self-defense. You have not, and you can't, because it doesn't say that. The command is universal, not limited, and it requires offensive warfare for Allah (as traditional Islam itself argues).

We have Christian friends and neighbors who we treat them with respect and we don't ever feel any hatred towards them...and I personally know a Christian person and I treat him normally;and that what Islam orders us in Sunnah as Prophet Mohame said that:"Who hurts any of non-muslims like who hurts me and who hurts me like who hurts ALLAH"

This is the right islamic rules which most of muslims understand and do..

Egypt is good for non-Muslims, right? They can build their religious buildings as freely as any Muslim can build a mosque, right? They can practice their faith in public without restriction just as any Muslim can practice, right? They are able to share their religious faith as freely as any Muslim can speak of Allah, right? They don't have to worry about their daughters being kidnapped and told by the police that they don't have to worry, since now, "...she's in the hands of Islam," right?

It is good that you feel no enmity toward the one Christian you know personally. However, I have not been addressing you nor your feelings; I have been addressing Islam's teachings (as found in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira). Allah and his prophet command the fighting against, subduing and humiliating, and killing of non-Muslims. It is this that I find unpalatable.

I wonder that your eyes went to verses you mentioned and don't go to verses I mentioned however both of them are in QUR'AN:)

Then how do you reconcile the contradiction?

How can you cite one passage commanding fighting for self-defense, but ignore the numerous passages commanding (offensive) warring against, mutiliating, and killing the Infidel?

In fact, your statement is an admission that the Qur'an commands offensive warfare against non-Muslims, which you've repeatedly denied.

Since you argued that "ALL" Qur'anic passages described war in self-defense and not offensive warfare, is it now reasonable to wonder about your honesty in this matter?

Islam is a religion for material life and also spiritual life..I worship ALLAH well which lead me to be successful in my life and to love my country and you'll find alot of evidences from QURA'AN and Sunnah which say that..and you can search for it..

Hard work and patriotism are both (usually) good things. I've been addressing that in Islam which requires harming non-Muslims.

On the fall of Constantinople

"[...] the great church of Hagia Sophia was filled to capacity. Thousands of people were moving towards the church. Inside, Orthodox and Catholic priests were holding liturgy, the last Christian service after almost 1,000 years. People were singing hymns, others were openly crying, others were asking each other for forgiveness [...].

"Bands of Ottoman soldiers began now looting. Doors were broken, private homes were looted, their tenants were massacred. Shops in the city markets were looted. Monasteries and Convents were broken in. Their tenants were killed, nuns were raped; many, to avoid dishonor, killed themselves. Killing, raping, looting, burning, enslaving, went on and on [...].

"The great doors of Hagia Sophia were forced open, and crowds of angry soldiers came in and fell upon the unfortunate worshippers. Pillaging and killing in the holy place went on for hours. Similar was the fate of worshippers in most churches in the city [...].

"Thousands of civilians were enslaved, soldiers fought over young boys and young women [...] the invaders broke the heads of those women who resisted on the floor of the churches and they raped them dead. The famous icon of Apostole Loukas was totally destroyed.

"The sultan asked for the young sons of Duke Loukas Notaras. Their father refused and Mehmed was ready to take their heads. Notaras asked him to kill him after his sons so that he was sure that they were dead and not disgraced from the pervert sultan.

"And this is what happened."

Black Tuesday, The Last Day of the World, the twenty-ninth of May, anno Domini MCDLIII

On American Liberty

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

Thomas Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence, 1776

"The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy] have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it's benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind."

Thomas Jefferson to Moses Robinson Washington, Mar. 23, 1801

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, September 23, 1800

The truth about Mahomet

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

"A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property -- either as a child, a wife, or a concubine -- must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science -- the science against which it had vainly struggled -- the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

Winston Churchill, Churchill, Winston S. (1899), The River War, First edition, Vol. II, pp. 248-250

A war of twelve hundred years

"And he [Jesus] declared, that the enjoyment of felicity in the world hereafter, would be reward of the practice of benevolence here. His whole law was resolvable into the precept of love; peace on earth – good will toward man, was the early object of his mission; and the authoritative demonstration of the immortality of man, was that, which constituted the more than earthly tribute of glory to God in the highest [...] The first conquest of the religion of Jesus, was over the unsocial passions of his disciples. It elevated the standard of the human character in the scale of existence. [...] On the Christian system of morals, man is an immortal spirit, confined for a short space of time, in an earthly tabernacle. Kindness to his fellow mortals embraces the whole compass of his duties upon earth, and the whole promise of happiness to his spirit hereafter. THE ESSENCE OF THIS DOCTRINE IS, TO EXALT THE SPIRITUAL OVER THE BRUTAL PART OF HIS NATURE.

[...]

“In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar [i.e., Muhammad], the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE

[...]

"Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant. [...] While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men.”

John Quincy Adams, Blunt, Joseph (1830),The American Annual Register for the Years 1827-8-9, pp. 268-269

Impossible Islamophobia

Nearly one and one-half millennia of slavery, rape, and slaughter in Allah's name ...

80% of American -- not Pakistani, not Saudi Arabian, not Iranian, but American -- mosques teach jihad/Islamic supremacism ...

Nearly twenty-seven thousand documented jihad attacks since 9/11 alone, and ...

Islam's "Ideal Man" Muhammad -- Allah's "beautiful pattern of conduct" for those who want to please it -- preached and practiced genocide, pedophilia, rape, slavery, torture, mutilation, anti-Semitism, theft, extortion, arson, wife-beating, polygyny, religious and gender apartheid, sedition, treason, deceit, and blasphemy and warned his devotees that "Allah made me do it, and you will too, or else!"

No, "Islamophobia" is impossible. Merely pointing out simple facts regarding a genocidal, malevolent, and totalitarian ideology is neither phobic nor intolerant. It is highly rational and moral.

We are in only the latest phase of an ancient and existential struggle, Allah's war against humanity.

Speaking the truth in love

Never surrender

"we shall prove ourselves once again able to defend our Island home, to ride out the storm of war, and to outlive the menace of tyranny, if necessary for years, if necessary alone [...].

"we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end [...] we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender [...]."

Winston Churchill to the House of Commons, June 4, 1940