Monday, December 26

Mohamed on Mohammed, part II

A reader from Egypt continues...
First of all..Please don't direct any swears to Islam or even my prophet Mohamed..and you will receive the same respect;
How generous. You will find that I tend to stick to the facts.

I hope you don't consider telling the truth "swears."
as Islam orders me-in QURA'AN to:"Invite (all) to the Way of
thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with
them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord
knoweth best.."16:125
Islam also orders you to:
Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them). And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do" (Qur'an 8:38-8:39).
Mohamed continues:
...about first request:(..Islam actually teaches equality of rights and freedom of religion for all (including unbelievers))..you'll find the verse which say:"Let there be no compulsion in religion.."2:256
And the context for that passage is that those to whom the (false) prophet was referring were being tortured and killed for Allah.

If that is not enough to demonstrate the "tolerance" of Mohammed and his god, what about this from Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, 'If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.''
If Islam requires the subjugation, oppression, and murder of Infidels who do not convert of their own free will, how "free" is their conversion when those unbelievers see the consequences of remaining an unbeliever?
and you'll find Prophet Mohamed saying"They have the same rights of us,and same duties on us"..and Omar Ibn Al-khatab using non-muslims-as employes-in House of Money(Bait Al Mal).
Equal rights? Subjugation is not equality.

You'll also find Mohammed saying, "Fight...the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Qur'an 9:29). The dhimmitude described here is not equality of rights, it is humiliation, oppression, vile submission.
and what about second request;there is three verses after each other that reply on it..it's in 2:190-191-192 and say:"190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you,but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. 191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque,unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. 192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
This is one of the passages that requires warfare in self-defense. This is entirely appropriate.

However, this passage does nothing to ameliorate or negate the universal commands for warfare against the Infidel found in numerous Qur'anic passages (exemplified by the Verse of the Sword, 9:5: "...kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.").
...I want to reveal a basic point:verses you mentioned are talking about events that passed(from 1400 years)when unbelievers were fighting Muslims.. and another important point;from rules of wars in Islam is not to kill an old man,a child or a woman or to cut a tree and to leave mens who are worshipping in hermitages(monastics)..so how QURA'AN get back and order Muslims to kill with no borders..
Again, the passage from Surah 2 regarding self-defense in no way negates the universal commands for warfare against non-Muslims found in Surah 9 and elsewhere.

I asked you to demonstrate from its context that 9:5 was a passage about self-defense. You have not, and you can't, because it doesn't say that. The command is universal, not limited, and it requires offensive warfare for Allah (as traditional Islam itself argues).
We have Christian friends and neighbors who we treat them with respect and we don't ever feel any hatred towards them...and I personally know a Christian person and I treat him normally;and that what Islam orders us in Sunnah as Prophet Mohame said that:"Who hurts any of non-muslims like who hurts me and who hurts me like who hurts ALLAH"

This is the right islamic rules which most of muslims understand and do..
Egypt is good for non-Muslims, right? They can build their religious buildings as freely as any Muslim can build a mosque, right? They can practice their faith in public without restriction just as any Muslim can practice, right? They are able to share their religious faith as freely as any Muslim can speak of Allah, right? They don't have to worry about their daughters being kidnapped and told by the police that they don't have to worry, since now, "...she's in the hands of Islam," right?

It is good that you feel no enmity toward the one Christian you know personally. However, I have not been addressing you nor your feelings; I have been addressing Islam's teachings (as found in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira). Allah and his prophet command the fighting against, subduing and humiliating, and killing of non-Muslims. It is this that I find unpalatable.
I wonder that your eyes went to verses you mentioned and don't go to verses I mentioned however both of them are in QUR'AN:)
Then how do you reconcile the contradiction?

How can you cite one passage commanding fighting for self-defense, but ignore the numerous passages commanding (offensive) warring against, mutiliating, and killing the Infidel?

In fact, your statement is an admission that the Qur'an commands offensive warfare against non-Muslims, which you've repeatedly denied.

Since you argued that "ALL" Qur'anic passages described war in self-defense and not offensive warfare, is it now reasonable to wonder about your honesty in this matter?
Islam is a religion for material life and also spiritual life..I worship ALLAH well which lead me to be successful in my life and to love my country and you'll find alot of evidences from QURA'AN and Sunnah which say that..and you can search for it..
Hard work and patriotism are both (usually) good things. I've been addressing that in Islam which requires harming non-Muslims.